UCCminutes 990810 === [YAK] = Ian McKeller [yakk] [NTU] = Nick Bannon [nick] [DJL] = David Luyer [luyer] [MEL] = Melissa Challenor [melissa] [NRR] = Nick Rohrlach [bers] [MJH] = Mikolaj Habryn [dichro] [TAM] = Tamara Fehlberg [star] [SAM] = Sam Bentink [pol] [ECF] = John West [john] [MST] = Anil Sharma [maset] [PGW] = Peter Wilsmore [djinn] [MTL] = Mark Tearle [mtearle] [GMB] = Grahame Bowland [gbowland] [DES] = Duncan Sargeant [dunc] [CRM] = Cameron MacFarland [cameronm] [SNG] = Stephen Griffiths [griffin] [BEN] = Ben Rampling [ben] Kristy = Kristy Duckham === Committee Present: [YAK] [NTU] [DJL] [MEL] [NRR] [MJH] Committee Apologies: [TAM] [SAM] Others Present: [ECF] [MST] [PGW] [MTL] [GMB] [DES] [CRM] [SNG] [BEN] Kristy === Meeting opened 5:20pm President's Report: We had a wheel meeting. President has been doing stuff. Vice-President's Report: VP apologizes for dealing with an issue which could have been dealt with in a better matter by resigning. VP found the Abacus stuff which should have been auctioned at the UCC 25th. Treasurer's Report: Banked $246.95. AARNet bill for June approx $82, May approx $80. Typical AARNet bill last year was $170. Balance $6425, but we have not paid the Rydges yet. Cheque from iiNet - [MEL] was meant to do something. We should get around $860 from them. [ECF] owes for his piece of carpet from the auction and [MEL] and all owe for the scanner. Correspondance Report: E-mail in: VP resigned. No other mail in. Machine Report: Mussel is improving General points from wheel meeting (full minutes sent to committee members and wheel): Buy a SCSI CD-R or CD-RW Backup options - DVD-RAM, DAT or 8mm tapes considered [NTU] and [TDH] to bring in 8mm tape drives Asking SGI for a DAT drive Disk usage was discussed Networking - giving access to all of WAIX from UCC Breaking into [NRR]'s car Home directory location (and home & away directories, fms to select) All outside traffic to go through router NFS exporting - erwin to other SGIs Thank Q-Technologies re: IBM RS/6000s SOCKS5 on SGIs/mussel 100Mbit switch - approx 2100/2900 for 12/24 port Cisco switch BeBox - suggestion to Linux it Beige Y2K compatibility Wheel removals: David Chinnery, Paul McAlpine and Dunc requested removal James, Barnes to be asked (both want to stay in wheel) Dunc changed his mind and requested to stay in wheel 3 new machines, 2 x RS/6000 and Multics box, not working very well yet. General business: Electricity - "Marty" the electrician has come and locked the "thing" ([MEL]'s name for the switchbox). [MEL] has the number for him and his boss (Graham) and they want to "fix" the UCC power situation and put a board in the clubroom. They want to come and measure what we are using and set it up properly. They will approach the guild to do it as the current situation is seen as a fire hazard. Cost is around $200, so hopefully the guild will just pay for it. VP Resignation - [YAK] stated that he thinks the resignation issue is unfortunate and if [MEL] doesn't want to stop being a vice president we are faced with the fact that the resignation has been made but the constitution has no provision to withdraw the resignation. [MEL] states that the committee is yet to accept her resignation and she no longer wants to resign. [YAK] proposes that we do not accept the resignation on the basis that it did not contain 14 days notice and hence is up to the committee to accept or reject as an immediate resignation. [NRR] seconds. Passed. [MEL] wants to let everyone know that the reason she wanted to resign over the wheel issue is that she thinks it is an issue which is very emotional and that she doesn't want to lose friends over it. She has not decided to not resign (and to make enemies?). [MEL] - "Can I go ahead?" [NRR] - "What's your problem?" [MEL] asked [NRR] if she could attend the wheel meeting on Friday but was not permitted to attend and wishes to discuss it. She also wants to formalize the concept of wheel. [YAK] states that [MEL] should have asked others regarding whether she could attend the wheel meeting. [NRR] states that he didn't expect [MEL] to want to take his comments about the wheel meeting attendance as final. [YAK]/[MJH] comment that it is good that wheel is apolitical and that while things maybe should be formalized (possibly not in the constitution) it is good to separate management and operation. [MJH] states that if wheel meets as a wheel meeting then committee should be able to be present. [NRR] states the committee should clarify which powers are given to wheel and which are not. [MEL] thinks there should be more wheel guidelines, written by committee, to give wheel more of an idea of its identity. Kristy arrives. [MJH] states that most of wheel's problem with this is that [MEL] is a power mad meglomaniac. He was thinking this was going to be a more interesting meeting and [MEL] has disappointed him by withdrawing her resignation. [NTU] states that letting committee into the wheel meeting when other groups (such as doorgroup) are not is an arbitrary choice and maybe not the best. [MEL] states that she was hoping for a big argument too, and that's why she asked Kristy to come along. Kristy states that anyone should be able to attend a meeting, but any in-camera section should be reported to committee. All members should be able to attend meetings in general. However sub-committee rules should be defined by the committee, and should state how open the work of the sub-committee must be. [CRM] asks if that really fixes the problem and whether it prevents closed meetings. [MEL] brings up the issue of if a committee member has done something wrong (eg, illegal), wheel need to be able to discuss it in a seperate forum. Kristy states that she would have expected the committee to be the body who control account locking. [YAK] explains that wheel currently have control over all accounts. [ECF] states that account locking should be done by wheel but then considered by the committee. [MEL] comments that this is not currently happening. [ECF] comments that if it's not neccesary to lock the account immediately it should be sent to committee and locked afterward. [MEL] states she intends to write this up at the UCC camp then take it to a general meetings. Whether is should be a policy or a part of the constitution is questionable. [ECF] states that it should not be in the constitution but as an appendix to the constitution changeable at a general meeting with a two thirds majority. [MEL] suggests we form the policy at the camp and then work on it and discuss it until the AGM. [NRR]/[YAK] suggest that we can make it powers and duties rather than policy so it can be set by the committee rather than by a general meeting. [MEL] states that she believes that the secure server policy should be part of the constitution so it is hard to change. Kristy suggests that it is good to put it in the constitution for the good of the club to make it hard to change. [ECF] comments that you can still call a general meeting and time so it is still flexible enough as an appendix to the constitution but not able to simply be changed by any future committee's whims. [NRR] asks how we decide which sub-committees need formalizing. [MEL] suggests wheel and secure under point 23 of the constitution and doorgroup, cokegroup and webmasters under point 14. [YAK] states that a doorgroup member can ask someone to leave the room but a wheel member can't, they can only remove electronic access. He asks why electronic access is considered more serious than the physical access in [MEL]'s previous point. Kristy states that she believes point 14 is more for working parties than long term sub-committees such as doorgroup, cokegroup and webmasters. [NRR] also believes that these should all be handled under point 23. [NTU] states that all the standing sub-committees should all be clarified under the same point (not some under 14 and some under 23). [YAK] states that he believes the major difference is who is permitted to change the rules. [MEL] states that there is nothing wrong with calling a general meeting when something needs to be changed and believes that if everything belongs under the one rule it should all be under point 23. The groups in question are decided to be cokegroup, doorgroup, wheel, secure and webmasters. Policies for these groups are agreed to be formulated at the UCC camp to be discussed on mailing lists from then until a general meeting or the AGM next year when they can be formally voted on and accepted (or otherwise). [YAK] states that we don't need to re-invent the wheel. (he's been wanting to say this all meeting but couldn't find a relevant place to say it, so he said it.) People carefully read the constitution regarding the interim changes to policy, and see that there is no clause permitting the committee to make interim policy changes for until the next general meeting, something which surprises Kristy. Discussion of an old general meeting and members voting at committee meetings. We should search for the minutes and update the constitution (or if we don't find them, re-ratify the changes at the next general meeting). The ease of stacking committee meetings if this was actually decided and implemented was discussed and considered to be a particularly bad thing. [BEN] comments that we have no fire extinguishers in Cameron Hall. Kristy mentions that we should be able to get fire extinguishers and also mentions that the roof will be fixed in the future. Meeting closed 7:00pm Ammendum (post-meeting discussion) Mailing lists discussion - new lists: wheel, committee - wheel and committee lists; to automatically add a trailer that they are only to be used for confidential matters tech, policy - open wheel and commitee related lists, "tech" to replace "hardware" (better name for policy? - open to suggestions) wc - wheel + committee tp - tech + policy ucc - ucc discussion/social (no change) ucc-announce - official annoucements (no change)